I freaking love this AWD vs Snow tires debate

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 01/25/2019 at 12:14 • Filed to: None

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Cracks me up.

People...why is having additional driven wheels a bad thing? You really think the people that didn’t buy snow tires for their crossover would have bought them for their sedan?

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 12:21

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Every single year this debate rages on until there will no longer be any 2wd cars left in the world.

JustAnotherG6 > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 12:21

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I prefer neither. Safety is overrated.

facw > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 12:22

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My parents for years had snow tires on their FWD and RWD cars, but didn’t bother with them for their AWD car because they said it didn’t need them (haven driven it through a blizzard, I can confirm this is a lie). I finally convinced them to get snows for it in Fall ‘17.

shop-teacher > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 12:22

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“You really think the people that didn’t buy snow tires for their crossover would have bought them for their sedan?”

This. This right here. Heck, I love snow tires, and I didn't buy them for my wife's AWD crossover. She drives less than 3k miles a year, I can't justify the expense.

V12 Jake II- New and Improved! > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 12:23

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I think the best option is full time 4WD with snow tires...I might be somewhat biased though. 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 12:23

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AWD gives a false sense of confidence when accelerating ( due to no wheel spin ), which leads to them overdriving conditions.

At least that’s a big mark against AWD that I see on a daily basis.

DipodomysDeserti > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 12:26

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Having additional driven wheels makes driving boring.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 01/25/2019 at 12:29

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It’s when the debate ends that all we’re left with are boring AWD vehicles...

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > JustAnotherG6 01/25/2019 at 12:29

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#Drivermod.

interstate366, now In The Industry > shop-teacher 01/25/2019 at 12:30

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For me it simply doesn’t snow enough here to justify it. So AWD sedan with all seasons it is.

JustAnotherG6 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 01/25/2019 at 12:32

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#mental

HammerheadFistpunch > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 01/25/2019 at 12:33

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I don’t buy it.  I know people say that, but based on what?  observation of cars that have slid off the road?  That’s hardly a valid data source for motivations and habits.  how many of those are really 2wd?  how many actually had snow tires but weren’t paying attention? Nah, this is more something people convince themselves of versus something we can pin on people.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 01/25/2019 at 12:37

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Honda CRV’s for everyone!

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 01/25/2019 at 12:38

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I’ll just stop driving...

CobraJoe > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 12:39

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People...why is having additional driven wheels a bad thing?

Because it’s boring (and unnecessary) on dry pavement. I had a roughly 300hp tuned turbo subaru, it was less fun than my 300hp switchable 4x4 truck.

Back on topic: Tires matter. Summer tires are god aw ful on snow, quality all seasons can be pretty impressive on snow. If you have the latter, snow tires are optional, if you have the former, get the snow tires. Awd makes any tire work better in slippery conditions, but adding 100% more driven wheels to nothing is still nothing.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 12:39

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Wednesday morning, we had 10" of snow overnight. My outback on blizzaks was fine and my wife took the kids skiing before any plows came through. I waited until the county plowed to leave in my Mazda3 with blizzaks because I didn’t want to get stuck driving down a hill. AWD>2WD every single time for me. If I lived in california I wouldn’t care. I’d be driving a V8 mustang with Z rated summer tires.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 12:40

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Snows on all the things. Pink ups crossover, SUVs, hatchbacks, sports cars.

No mater how many wheeels are driven you need traction to turn and steer.

Actually I think Long Voyager has a point about AWD cars needing snows MORE because AWD allows you to accelerate better, but the faster you go the better braking and turning t raction you need.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 12:41

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The majority of vehicles I see in the ditch are AWD vehicles, combined the the majority of vehicles I see driving like idiots on bad roads also being AWD.

People drive where they feel comfortable, if they can accelerate without spinning a tire, they are more likely to drive faster, it’s just human nature.

AWD+snows is the best combo, no doubt, but the reality is AWD+worn out all seasons in most cases. To that point a 2wd vehicle with snows wins hands down.

My bird IS the word > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 12:43

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I’m not overly impressed with my yokohama snow tires on my focus st and honestly would have liked AWD. All seasons worked just fine on my mini

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 01/25/2019 at 12:45

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We had 9" and unplowed roads when I came home from work Wednesday afternoon. My fwd car on Blizzaks had no issue plowing through it.

HammerheadFistpunch > CobraJoe 01/25/2019 at 12:47

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“Because it’s boring (and unnecessary) on dry pavement. I had a roughly 300hp tuned turbo subaru, it was less fun than my 300hp switchable 4x4 truck.”

eh, depends, I’ve had a turboru and it was tons of fun, I’ve also had plenty of part time 4wd’s. I can’t say that the driven wheels part of the equation changed the fun. Case in point the Land Cruiser brought me no end of joy in this last snow storm because of the lockable center diff and doing pirouettes. It’s not like having permanent AWD makes it any less fun on dirt roads either, you can still very much swing the ass out, but recovery is much easier.

As for the tires. Let’s be clear - get the best tires for the conditions you can afford. Period. My point in the post was that crossovers and AWD haven’t changed people’s minds about winter tires, in fact I would bet that winter tire adoption rates have gone WAY up in line with AWD and crossover adoption rates. I mean, are we to believe that since the AWD crossover came out that people stopped buying appropriate tires for their region compared to what they were buying before ? That’s just silly and nonsense.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 01/25/2019 at 12:47

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You are not driving a Mazda 3 with 4" of ground clearance , you are driving front wheel drive american iron. I’m good up to about 6" but when I start pushing snow the car gets high centered very easily.

HammerheadFistpunch > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 01/25/2019 at 12:48

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exactly.  

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 01/25/2019 at 12:51

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True.

Modern cars really lack any sort of ground clearance.

412GTI > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 12:51

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I don’t think having additional drive wheels is a bad thing. I for one certainly like it on the big brother to my GTI, the Golf R.

However, to me, it’s more about education. Just last week when I went skiing with my buddy and his parents. His mother was astonished my car could make it up a snowy mountain since “it wasn’t a Jeep”. She didn’t believe when I said my car on snow tires can stop better than any Jeep on all-seasons.

She and many others fully believe the marketing pitch for brands like Jeep/Subaru and get a false sense of security. That’s really my only issue. Besides that, AWD is great to have in a state like mine. 

HammerheadFistpunch > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/25/2019 at 12:54

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Acceleration =/= speed. J ust because you can get up to speed more easily doesn’t presume you will speed. That’ s just a bad assumption. M ost times speed on bad roads isn’t limited by acceleration but by the general speed of traffic. In any case, being able to accelerate faster is a net safety advantage because it keeps you out of intersections and safer. As an example, if you pull into traffic and find you can’t accelerate like you thought you might find out that the car behind you can’t stop as fast as you thought either.

HammerheadFistpunch > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 01/25/2019 at 12:57

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W hat your describing is cognitive bias. AWD vehicles are more popular, the likelihood that they will be involved in an accident it proportionally higher.

As I said to someone else, Acceleration =/= speed. Getting up to speed and speeding are two very different behaviors.

Put it another way, would the people you see in the ditch still be there 20 years ago before AWD/4wd was common based on their driving habits alone?  probably.  

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 12:58

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Meanwhile I’ve been running around on un plowed and snow- packed streets with a lightweight RWD truck without winter tires.

The primary arguments against AWD are higher initial purchase price, reduced fuel economy, and higher maintenance costs, for something most drivers don’t need most days of the year . All of those are totally reasonable arguments... that no one uses.

I don’t really understand the debate though. People arguing that inexpensive winter tires make a 2wd vehicle as competent as an awd vehicle on all seasons... But really, 4x4 + winter tires is pretty well unstoppable.

My argument though is why you would want a 2wd truck? I’ve had people try to tell me a locking rear diff makes up for it... but it just doesn’t. A 2wd truck is just compromised.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 01/25/2019 at 13:03

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Most modern awd crossovers are also outfitted with driver  nannies that allow people to become overconfident. Many drivers don’t necessarily realize they’re fighting for traction because of them, then once they do something totally dumb that the stability control can’t deal with, they’re done.

HammerheadFistpunch > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 01/25/2019 at 13:06

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In terms of trucks, 100% agree. Unless you are pre running and can’t make the CV angles work up front 2wd makes no sense. Even then people ar e working hard to make 4wd work in those types of trucks for their obvious advantages.

As far as the disadvantages of AWD, those are largely going by the wayside. The additional weight is minor (between 78-120 additional lbs weight), the fuel economy penalty is largely non-existent as the new systems have fully decoupling PTO’s and drive modules and run in FWD mode with no AWD system drag (including the driveshaft) and the maintenance ...well I can’t say that was ever really an issue. If anything it results it more even tire wear and less stress on ball joints in the steering gear but that’ s neither here nor there.

HammerheadFistpunch > 412GTI 01/25/2019 at 13:09

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I agree that education is key, and it always has been, but I can’t abide the argument that buying into the advantages of AWD turn people into idiots about winter driving. Even my mom...who is arguably one of the worst, least attentive drivers I think I’ll ever know...knows to drive differently in the snow in her AWD vehicles. If you’ve lived in the snow, you learn how to drive.

Berang > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 13:11

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I have to be honest, I’ve found four wheel drive to be less controllable on snow and ice than just front wheel drive.

I’m not sure why, but I think it’s that the rear driven wheels will continue to push the car, even when the front wheels don’t have traction (and therefore no steering ability). 

His Stigness > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 13:12

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Clearly you’ve never been to California. Whenever water falls from the sky people forget how they’re supposed to drive.

And it doesn’t help they refuse to ever get tires so the rain is effectively as slippery as snow and ice is. 

HammerheadFistpunch > Berang 01/25/2019 at 13:18

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I can see that. When I drive my Land Cruiser in the snow I leave it out of “true 4 wheel drive” (I.e. center diff locked) because of the front end plow (and because it disables ABS). In the GX it’ s the same but they both have limited slip centers and in snow the ability to bias front to back balances the vehicle SO much better than a solid split does. The GX is BY FAR the more stable vehicle in the snow compared to my wife’ s previous cars (Passat with winters/sportwagen with winters)

long story short, a good center diff AWD is superior to an on demand awd or a locked awd in the snow.

functionoverfashion > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 13:19

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That headline was guaranteed to spark a raging debate.

For many years, my answer to this debate was simple: fwd, snow tires, tow strap and shovel in the trunk . If you get stuck, you can ask just about anyone for a pull, but most people don’t have a tow strap handy.

Now, o ur vehicles are set up like this:

1. (good) wife’s commuter mini - fwd, snow tires. fine in all but the worst conditions. probably wouldn’t get out the driveway without snows.

2. (better) volvo wagon - awd, all-seasons. family vehicle by default. don’t need to spend the money on snow tires because...

3. (best) bmw 325xi wagon - awd, snow tires. for the worst conditions, and my DD - but I don’t drive very far every day, so the snows last 4 seasons.

Our driveway is a slight uphill to the road with no flat area to get momentum. There are plenty of times where an FWD car will struggle to get started, but AWD will have no trouble. Never mind public roads, that’s not the issue. When you have a challenging driveway, it can be worth every penny for that extra traction. I never worry about getting to work or getting my kids to school. That’s worth a lot to me. I still keep a tow strap in the trunk.

HammerheadFistpunch > His Stigness 01/25/2019 at 13:20

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Would I be right to assume that most the cars in California (southern and central at least) are mostly equipped with summer rated tires? And from what you say, worn summer tires. In which case, that’ s just being cheap and careless right?

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 13:24

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I get what you’re saying, but it’s also supports the need for snows. Can’t get out of that slushy intersect with spinning tires.

I think in some situations being able to accelerate more quickly would mean you’d be going faster when that “oh shit” moment hits you. But I do agree that in most situations it wouldn’t play a part. Especially because most people only use 25% of their throttle anyway 

HammerheadFistpunch > functionoverfashion 01/25/2019 at 13:30

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I’ve run the gamut from rwd to fwd and awd/wheel drive. all seasons to dedicated winters. I’ve said it before - buy the best tires for the conditions you can regardless of what you drive. It’s this “awd is making people stupid and reckless” argument that draws my ire and is without merit. People were stupid and reckless LONG before the marketing folks oversold the power of AWD. The truth is that the fat part of the driving curve was always going to struggle with bad conditions. AWD, Traction management, etc - these are aids that DO help increase safety compared to the standard. It’ s not that having AWD makes you think you are invincible, its that bad driving isn’t compensated with AWD technology. Winter related accidents are on the decline...you simply can’t draw the conclusion that the prevalence of AWD is driving an increase it winter related issues.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 13:32

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Extra diff, extra fluid change. Sure you can ignore it, but why? It’s twice the drive components which means twice the potential for failure. Is it a big deal if you do it own your own, not so much, but if you’ve got to pay someone else to look at it then it does become an extra expense to consider. I imagine softer re-coupling than the component-shredding slam-it-together that the old auto4x4 systems did aleviates many  of the maintenance concerns.

Manny05x > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 13:55

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My set up is fwd+ bag of rocks+shovel. 

412GTI > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 13:56

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Agreed. Living in snowy Pa my whole life, most people figure out how to drive in the snow now matter what wheels are being powered. 

shop-teacher > interstate366, now In The Industry 01/25/2019 at 13:57

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Nothing wrong with that.  A good all season can do a great job in the winter.  Yes, you do have to drive more carefully, but you should be doing that anyway when the weather is bad.

HammerheadFistpunch > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/25/2019 at 14:02

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I’ll give you one anecdotal example. my dad had a 2nd gen Prius with winters. I took it one day and when i went to try and pull into a street on a slight Hill i couldn’t. traction control shut me down... half way into the street. i had to back up quick to avoid being hit. i turned around, got in my mom’s 2nd gen Highlander with 2 season old all seasons and got to the same Hill. traction control flashe d for a moment then out  into traffic. that day the snow tire vehicle was significantly less safe for me

His Stigness > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 14:13

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No, they actually all have “all season” tires. Most of my experience comes from America’s Tire (Discount Tire) and they push their store brands and exclusive tires quite hard. Here are the tires most sold according to each category.

Has no money or refuses to spend a few dollars more on a good tire: Arizonians. Followed closely by cheap ass Falkens.

Can afford to get a “Better” tire, but still refuses to spend money on something they see no value in. Top contender here is America’s Tire “exclusive” Yokohama YK580. Mediocre in every respect, but not as dangerous as the Arizonians or Falkens.

And when a customer is willing to spend money on a good tire, or they drive a “sporty” car we have the Michelin Pilot AS3 +.

Summer tires are never pushed by America’s Tire salesman. They ALWAYS push all-season tires.

HammerheadFistpunch > His Stigness 01/25/2019 at 14:19

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interesting. I’ll double check with wrong  wheel drive over lunch here in a second

functionoverfashion > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 14:23

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People were stupid and reckless LONG before the marketing folks oversold the power of AWD.

Reminds me of a quote related to spending money on needless modifications for off-roading (for those who don’t really off-road intelligently) - “You’ll just be deeper in the woods( or mud, sand, etc) when you DO get stuck”

AWD might get you up the hill that FWD wouldn’t have, so instead of being stuck in the snowbank going UP the hill, the same person will be in the ditch on the first corner AFTER the hill. Same idea.

His Stigness > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 14:26

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He keeps telling everyone in snowy areas in this state are all struggling to get grip while he’s sailing away.

The other thing I see as a tech is people not rotating their tires.

someoneatacura > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 14:34

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They get the cheapest tires they can, and run them until the metal is showing. Summer tires are usually more expensive than all season tires, so that’s usually not what they have unless factory equipped.

ihm96 > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 14:35

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That has nothing to do with the driven wheels though, thats due to the shitty traction control system. If you were in my E34 with no traction control you wouldve been just fine, or if you were in the Z3 the limited slip would help you keep grip and push through just fine. Tires and driver are always more important. Ground clearance can also play a big factor, thats the most limiting factor for the Z3

someoneatacura > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 01/25/2019 at 14:39

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It’s really, really uncommon to need major over hauls on these units though. We’ve never had even a SH-AWD diff have any issue besides an axle seal leak at my dealership, and we only sell our CUVs with AWD in Canada - no FWD option . Also, most diff fluids are fairly cheap, being a gear oil or even the SH-AWD fluid (~$ 13/L).

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > someoneatacura 01/25/2019 at 15:45

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I’m aware gear oils are ridiculously cheap. But go to a jiffylube type of place and it will pretty much triple the cost of an oil change to get a diff done, and that leaves a lasting impression on a person. Me, frankly, I don’t care. My only qualms with the typical awd system are lack of a multi-range transfer case and lack of operator control over the system. 

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 16:22

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Correct answer is fwd, all seasons, take every corner sideways.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 16:55

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Ability to accelerate = How comfortable you are to drive faster.

Being able to accelerate easily gives a sense that things aren’t as bad as they actually are, leading to them overdriving the conditions.

Around here it’s a pretty even, if not non-awd biased mix of vehicles I see on the road, yet the large majority I see off the road are AWD. Not sure seeing an even mix driving, yet a majority of one ditched makes a bias, it’s simple observation.

someoneatacura > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 01/25/2019 at 17:26

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Those places are dishonest at best, not going to lose sleep over people getting triple charged by them.

Those transfer case systems only benefit serious off roading. A modern Torque Vectoring system is far better suited for road use.

HammerheadFistpunch > ihm96 01/25/2019 at 17:38

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yes and no. If the wheels have traction the traction control is superfluous isn’t it. The wheels had practically no traction. I’ll grant that the Prius is a worst case because tiny wheels for the weight but even still we had a TDI sportwagen with Blizzaks that wasn’t as secure in most conditions as our GX with Dynapro ATs with mountain snowflake.  When we had the sportwagen with winters and the cruiser on duratracs it was always the cruiser that would get ski shuttle duty in bad weather and for good reason. 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > HammerheadFistpunch 01/25/2019 at 22:49

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My bigger complaint is with poorly maintianed vehicles. I moved from a state that required inspections, to one without and yes for people with 1/2 a brain it unecessary. But it kept morons on bald tires off the road.

The one thing that changing tires, does force the owner to know what is on their car.

I think the reason “i see more awd cars in ditches” is less “acceleraton” and more that it gives people a false sense of security to head out into the storn than waiting. At that point they’re commited and their ego is going to force them to go whether they’re spinning or safely driving. W hether they have traction, is 20 minutes after they made up thier mind, cleared off the snow and warmed up their car.

ihm96 > HammerheadFistpunch 01/26/2019 at 09:13

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No, it has to do with the fact that the DSC of that era wasn’t designed for snow. Even in a Lexus GS with AWD or an Audi A8 Quattro I’ve driven in snowstorms, both needed the traction off at some points and both owners manuals recommended it.

Now a lot of modern cars have a slippery mode that can adjust to allow the little bit of wheel slippage needed in snow, and in that case you’d be fine. If you pop a new corvette into slippery mode or a 911 its basically impossible to spin out

Again, your problem wasnt the tires it was that traction control shut the engine down basically and didnt let you continue. If it had snow tires in good condition you should be good pretty much everywhere. And the smaller wheels help in snow, most people downsize from stock for winter

HammerheadFistpunch > ihm96 01/26/2019 at 10:10

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the Highlander was an earlier model year than the Prius and  same make you realize.

ihm96 > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 01/26/2019 at 11:10

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RWD + Blizzaks, take every corner sideways is the best answer though.

I do miss having my 500$ Corolla though, that thing was fun in the winter. Handbrake turns and drifting in the snow with that things was tons of fun

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > someoneatacura 01/26/2019 at 16:07

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Only if your driving style is “I don’t know what I’m doing and lose my shit any time the vehicle gets even a little out of shape.”

All the things that “only benefit serious off roading” are what makes them excel in suboptimal road conditions. I’ll admit having low range isn’t typically beneficial on road, but the ability to lock in the 4x4 before you loose traction gets you way further ahead of the game, a nd saying otherwise is just as moronic as people who tell you 4x4 doesn’t help you stop or turn. I mean sure, you need to know what you’re doing, but you should already  know what you’re doing before you get behind the wheel anyhow. 

someoneatacura > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 01/26/2019 at 19:59

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Sorry, gotta disa gree there. There is many instances where braking certain wheels and powering others will help a car stay in it’s line and maintain traction better than just spinning all wheels equally (wheels need to rotate at different speeds also). I”m not saying 4X4 doesn’t have traction, I’m saying on the road the ability to modulate power and which wheels get it is better for the general public.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > someoneatacura 01/26/2019 at 22:03

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4x4 forces the axles to rotate at the same speed. In a straight line, y ou don’t want the axles spinning at different speeds, and having the two locked together helps to prevent lockup from uneven traction. Braking on low-traction surfaces also doesn’t transfer weight the same way as it does on dry pavement, and locking the axles together forces the stronger front brakes to also slow down the rear wheels, which takes advantage of the greater braking traction available to the rear axle when it’s not getting unloaded as much as it would be under normal braking conditions. The rear axle is where you want most of the braking to keep the vehicle in a straight line, but it’s not really available there in normal conditions without doing stuff to the suspension that will seriously compromise ri de quality .

And it’s the same deal on acceleration. Weight transfer unloads the front axle. In your typical FWD-biased drivetrain, you spin the front tires almost instantly and then when you engage the rear wheels you’re no longer pointed the same direction you were intending, thanks to the crown in the road, and you’ve got to correct for that, backing off the throttle to stop the spin, which then disengages the rear, making the spin worse. Having the rear axle engaged before you start prevents that from happening unless you really get into the throttle and spin all four. Splitting the available power between both axles also cuts the power to each axle in half, making it far less likely to initiate the spin in the first place, because you only need half as much traction at each axle. All the power goes to the ground anyhow, less efficiency loses from rotating two axles instead of one, so the driver doesn’t notice a difference in acceleration.

Yes, you do induce understeer by forcing axles to rotate at the same speed, but that’s where full-time 4x4 comes in. 4x4 that maintains drive at all times to both axles, but that allows for a differential in speeds between the two. Generally there’s a limited slip centre diff, and it does reduce the advantages of accel and decel somewhat compared to a pair of axles locked together, but the advantages of having a system that doesn’t need to react to changing traction conditions before it engages both axles still puts you far ahead of one that doesn’t do anything until it’s pretty much already too late. A dab of brakes and a touch of throttle puts traction back to the front and brings the rear around to point you in the correct direction once again.

There’s a reason people in ruralor remote areas prefer proper 4x4 systems in trucks and SUVs   over an awd crossover, and it’s because they are far more sure footed in inclement conditions. Yes there’s a fuel economy penalty, but when you’ve got the space necessary for regular use of an actual 4x4 truck and you’re not struggling with a large vehicle in the city, you see far more of them. A modern AWD vehicle will manage to get around, but it simply doesn’t excel at harsh conditions  the way a true 4x4 vehicle does.